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3GunNation
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Posted: 5/17/2011 3:52:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/27/2011 5:01:07 AM EST by 3GunNation]
Tactical Optics/ Tactical Irons: Benelli M1Super90 12 Ga, Benelli M2 12 Ga, FN SLP Mk1 12 Ga, Remington 1100 12 Ga, Remington 11-87 12 Ga, Mossberg 930 12 Ga.

A reliable semi automatic shotgun is necessary in 3 Gun. Whether you decide on a Benelli, Remington, FN or Mossberg, the ultimate goal should be a shotgun that runs as consistently as possible and is easy to load using whichever loading technique you employ. Optimal barrel lengths are between 22 to 24 inches and having a shotgun magazine capable of holding 8 rounds is necessary to be competitive.

Heavy Metal: Benelli Nova, Benelli SuperNova, Remington 870, Winchester 1300.

A 12 Ga pump shotgun is required of all Heavy Metal competitiors. Some keys to look for when selecting your pump include but are not limited to, a smooth action, ease of loading, and how well the gun points for you.
Neomonk21
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Posted: 7/19/2011 11:05:24 AM EST
What type of sight is most common for shotgun?

The match I attended at my club this past weekend had slug targets, my first in a match, and my bead sight on my 870 was not the greatest.
olyeller
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Posted: 7/19/2011 1:17:11 PM EST
I will start off by saying that many folks in 3gun have a tendency to want to turn a shotgun into a rifle.

A vent rib and a good fiber optic front bead is all you need.

The advantage to a shotgun is that its a shotgun; it (properly fitted) swings with you, and where you look, the bead is. Thats all the sight feedback you need from the gun to hit steel, clays, pretty much anything with shot (bird or buck). Its a FAST system, and it works.


For slug shots-
Provided the barrel/choke/slug combination is capable of accurate hits, just aligning the bead on the rib, looking at the slug target, then coming back to the front bead for a hard focus, and pressing the shot is plenty effective. I can regularly punch fist sized groups at 60yds doing this. that gives me easy paper and A/C steel hits out a little past 100yds. You wont see any longer than that.


Where the bead needs to be aligned on the rib to have a accurate point of impact, is not always centered, in those cases, I suggest scoring a notch at the front of the rib, where it starts, and then filling it with sight paint.

Ive used express sights milled into the beginning of the rib, used 10/22 flip-up sights, but they clutter up the simplicity of the rib/bead sighting systems of most SG's.
Just trust in it, practice, and its pretty eye-opening how accurate a shotgun can be with slugs.
JesseCJC
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Posted: 7/19/2011 3:04:44 PM EST
How well do the clamp on style sights hold up that attach to the vent rib is this something that needs to be drilled and tapped into place?
olyeller
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Posted: 7/20/2011 5:43:31 AM EST
it depends on if you hit them hard enough to loosen em.

Like I said, theyre clunky and slow, imo.

On any aftermarket fiber optic bead that uses the threaded stock bead hole that I install, I drill and pin it to the rib.
Mike C.
snafu360
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Posted: 7/20/2011 6:47:44 AM EST
Don't forget the Saiga 12 for Open division
EGSMachine
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Posted: 7/20/2011 8:45:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2011 8:48:01 AM EST by EGSMachine]
I'm planning an 870 tactical (receiver mounted peep rear) with the Remington turkey barrel. let me explain.

I want the most use out of the gun possible.

1) turkey uses the rem-choke and comes with an IC choke. this should be sufficient for slug and the #6 max size pellet - since rem-choke, I can test and interchange at will
2) turkey barrel has rifle sites. omitting the rear barrel site, I should get a good site combo with the adjustable rear peep.
3) turkey barrel is 23" - a must for the local clays range

plus: receiver has a picatinny rail. optics for other classes and has a polymer stock and forend add the 8 round extension mag tube and i'm finished.

that's my plan, I'm sticking to it.
snafu360
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Posted: 7/20/2011 9:22:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2011 1:38:10 PM EST by snafu360]
Originally Posted By EGSMachine:
I'm planning an 870 tactical (receiver mounted peep rear) with the Remington turkey barrel. let me explain.

I want the most use out of the gun possible.

1) turkey uses the rem-choke and comes with an IC choke. this should be sufficient for slug and the #6 max size pellet - since rem-choke, I can test and interchange at will
2) turkey barrel has rifle sites. omitting the rear barrel site, I should get a good site combo with the adjustable rear peep.
3) turkey barrel is 23" - a must for the local clays range

plus: receiver has a picatinny rail. optics for other classes and has a polymer stock and forend add the 8 round extension mag tube and i'm finished.

that's my plan, I'm sticking to it.


Sure sounds great.
What division will you be shooting in?
Any class other than heavy metal will handicap you with the pump.
Guess It depends how serious you take your times/match finish.
JesseCJC
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Posted: 7/20/2011 12:58:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By olyeller:
it depends on if you hit them hard enough to loosen em.

Like I said, theyre clunky and slow, imo.

On any aftermarket fiber optic bead that uses the threaded stock bead hole that I install, I drill and pin it to the rib.


Would you opt for a wider than factory but still short bead or one of the longer pipe type tubes? Thanks
olyeller
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Posted: 7/23/2011 5:01:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2011 5:01:30 AM EST by olyeller]
I prefer Hi-Viz Comp sights, the FO tubes are swappable, and have two diameter sizes.
Mike C.
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Posted: 7/26/2011 5:57:51 AM EST
I run my Benelli M1 in Open and Tactical (with a tube switch and remove the Tec-Loader). The only sights I've ever needed is a fiber optic front and something as a rear point of reference. When I shot an 1100, the guys at Briley and I mounted a Williams rear peep to the receiver and it was a tack driver. On my Benelli, instead of running an optic, I have a Hi-Viz front sight and dovetailed in the flip up rear sight from a 10/22. If I need to make really long or accurate shots, flip up the blade. If it's hose and go with not "difficult" slug shots (50 yards and less) then it's just the dot and rib.

Rich
SinistralRifleman
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Posted: 7/26/2011 8:45:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2011 8:46:36 AM EST by SinistralRifleman]
I prefer the Williams fire sights on my Benelli M2 Vent Rib. You can zero them for use with slugs, and if you're not shooting slugs you can just use the fiber optic front as you would a bead sight. Use as much or little sight information as you want relative to the targets and distance you are shooting. The rear sight merely being there doesn't slow me down.

Red locktite all the little screws that hold them in place and they will stay put unless you really slam your gun into something.
Ironmaker
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Posted: 7/29/2011 6:15:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By olyeller:
I will start off by saying that many folks in 3gun have a tendency to want to turn a shotgun into a rifle.

<snip> <snip></snip>.

That is interesting. I was chatting with Rob Romero about choke selection. He said he used a tighter choke, modified I think, and he said you just shoot your shotgun like it is a rifle.
Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.
olyeller
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Posted: 7/29/2011 8:47:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:

Originally Posted By olyeller:
I will start off by saying that many folks in 3gun have a tendency to want to turn a shotgun into a rifle.

<snip><snip></snip>.

That is interesting. I was chatting with Rob Romero about choke selection. He said he used a tighter choke, modified I think, and he said you just shoot your shotgun like it is a rifle.


What he means is you still have to aim.
Mike C.
64tinc
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Posted: 7/30/2011 6:07:32 PM EST
I have a Benelli M2 with LPA tactical sights already they are adjustable, but are they too complex for shotgun shooting? Too slow or should I just remove the rear and put a different sight on it? I installed a surefire forend and vang comp follower what else do I need to add a pistol grip stock? I just like the feel of it and be able to add an 8 shot mag tube? Thanks I just bought it last week.
Ironmaker
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Posted: 7/31/2011 3:13:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By olyeller:
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:

Originally Posted By olyeller:
I will start off by saying that many folks in 3gun have a tendency to want to turn a shotgun into a rifle.

<snip>.

That is interesting. I was chatting with Rob Romero about choke selection. He said he used a tighter choke, modified I think, and he said you just shoot your shotgun like it is a rifle.


What he means is you still have to aim.

Yeah, I know what Rob was referring too. What do you mean by "turn a shotgun into a rifle"? That shooters put rifle sights on them when they don't have to?

I like shooting my FN SLP with the rear sight down and aiming down the wide groove in the rail.
Never follow anyone shorter than you; they can walk under things that you can't.
SinistralRifleman
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Posted: 7/31/2011 5:53:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By 64tinc:
I have a Benelli M2 with LPA tactical sights already they are adjustable, but are they too complex for shotgun shooting? .


If ghost rings or rifle sights do in fact slow shooters down, its hunredths of seconds and not something an entry level to mid level competitor would even notice. You'll be better served by being able to hit slug targets and not get +10 second misses. I like rifle sights better than ghost rings or just a bead but I am just a consistently above average shooter.

What the top dogs are using is a good baseline for what works in 3 gun, but don't get hung up on it if you dont have the exact configuration. Get out and shoot with what you have. Once you have match experience you can more intelligently change your guns around than saying "this dude uses this thing". To the guys making 100 yard slug hits with just beads, more power to them; they've also been shooting the same gun for a long time and have bought slugs to match the point of aim. n00bs that come out with bead sights miss a lot.

Shoot with both eyes open with your ghost rings, focus on the front sight and point it at close range anf flying clay targets. Only close your support side eye for slug shots. Ghost rings can be reasonably fast when used in this manner.
olyeller
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Posted: 8/1/2011 2:51:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:

Originally Posted By olyeller:
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:

Originally Posted By olyeller:
I will start off by saying that many folks in 3gun have a tendency to want to turn a shotgun into a rifle.

<snip>.

That is interesting. I was chatting with Rob Romero about choke selection. He said he used a tighter choke, modified I think, and he said you just shoot your shotgun like it is a rifle.


What he means is you still have to aim.

Yeah, I know what Rob was referring too. What do you mean by "turn a shotgun into a rifle"? That shooters put rifle sights on them when they don't have to?
Yes, one of the key advantages to shotguns in general is its speed and the ability to use a target focus when shooting shot. Sinistral is right, though. differences between gost rings and other types of SG sight systems arent going to make that big of a difference for the beginning 3g shooter.

I like shooting my FN SLP with the rear sight down and aiming down the wide groove in the rail.


Mike C.
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Posted: 8/1/2011 2:54:46 PM EST
Also wanted to add, whats the breakdown between the avg number of slug vs shot targets in an average 3g match? 5%? maybe less? Probably even lower for bigger matches.
So just to optimize for slug targets at the possible expense of shooting steel and clays might not be the thing to do.
Im not preaching gospel, Im just providing some food for thought.
Mike C.
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Posted: 8/3/2011 4:12:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By snafu360:
Don't forget the Saiga 12 for Open division


this - I have not shot a three gun match since 2007 but I saw a lot of Saiga's

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Posted: 8/15/2011 10:00:18 AM EST
What about less expensive auto options like an H&R. I have been considering getting into competition shooting, so I don't want to go drop $800+ on a shotgun for a sport that I'm new to and am mainly wanting to try it out just for fun. Since Marlin owns H&R, I have to assume that they're pretty good quality for the price cause they make a quality rifles. For a beginner, what are your opinions on H&R for other <$500 options for a possible competition shotgun?
BPR
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Posted: 8/16/2011 3:26:42 AM EST
You can find decent Remington 1100s at pawn shops and such for around $300. Cut the barrel or not, put a Nordic extension on it, make sure it runs, and you have a 3 gun shotgun for about $400. The Mossberg 930 is getting popular as a starter gun, you can have it ready to run for under $550 I believe.


Of course we're not talking about opening up loading ports, extended safeties, changing the beads to fibers. These options are all nice, but until you get out and shoot a few matches, you won't know what works for YOU.

A $200 Rem 870 w/ a Nordic tube will even work fine as long as you spend a little time practicing running a pump gun. That will give you a chance to get to a few matches, try out some other guys gear, and find out what YOU like.


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Posted: 8/16/2011 8:16:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By BPR:
You can find decent Remington 1100s at pawn shops and such for around $300. Cut the barrel or not, put a Nordic extension on it, make sure it runs, and you have a 3 gun shotgun for about $400. The Mossberg 930 is getting popular as a starter gun, you can have it ready to run for under $550 I believe.


Of course we're not talking about opening up loading ports, extended safeties, changing the beads to fibers. These options are all nice, but until you get out and shoot a few matches, you won't know what works for YOU.

A $200 Rem 870 w/ a Nordic tube will even work fine as long as you spend a little time practicing running a pump gun. That will give you a chance to get to a few matches, try out some other guys gear, and find out what YOU like.




I would follow BPR's line of thinking at least until you know you want to stay in the game, and maybe, just maybe, you'll find out you're one heck of a pumpgunner!

No one should expect to jump-in and play at the top of the game even at a local level. So just get out there are enjoy the game, no matter what equipment you have.

Patrick
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Posted: 8/16/2011 9:07:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By MGKelley:
Originally Posted By BPR:
You can find decent Remington 1100s at pawn shops and such for around $300. Cut the barrel or not, put a Nordic extension on it, make sure it runs, and you have a 3 gun shotgun for about $400. The Mossberg 930 is getting popular as a starter gun, you can have it ready to run for under $550 I believe.


Of course we're not talking about opening up loading ports, extended safeties, changing the beads to fibers. These options are all nice, but until you get out and shoot a few matches, you won't know what works for YOU.

A $200 Rem 870 w/ a Nordic tube will even work fine as long as you spend a little time practicing running a pump gun. That will give you a chance to get to a few matches, try out some other guys gear, and find out what YOU like.




Thanks for the advice. My initial thought was just go with an inexpensive pump like an H&R but then I was reading about semi-autos so I started getting ahead of myself. Lol


I would follow BPR's line of thinking at least until you know you want to stay in the game, and maybe, just maybe, you'll find out you're one heck of a pumpgunner!

No one should expect to jump-in and play at the top of the game even at a local level. So just get out there are enjoy the game, no matter what equipment you have.

Patrick


I have no expectations to play at the top of the game. I honestly don't expect to be really competitive for a while. There are a lot of good shooters around here that have been in the game a long time. I'm just wanting to go out and have some fun and learn as much as I can.
59Bassman
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Posted: 8/21/2011 1:19:16 AM EST
BPR's got the right of it.

A nice used Remington 1100 or 870 has a distinct advantage over something like the H&R - that advantage is that everyone and their brother makes parts and accessories for it. An 1100 or 870 can be rebuilt into about whatever type of gun you need by changing out barrels, stocks, and magazine tubes. The same gun can be changed from a Home Defense gun to a clay target gun with readily available parts.

The HR is going to have very little in aftermarket support. So with a used 1100, you get a gun that you can grow with - add parts as you get experience in competition, and you end up with something you could conceivably get your money out of (or some significant fraction). With the H&R, if you decide you really want to compete, that cost is gone - you're not going to get much for it in resale, and it's really not worth investing a lot into trying to build up further.
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Posted: 8/21/2011 11:50:34 AM EST
If you're going to be at Rockcastle for the ProAM, Benny Hill will have 2 of the new Mossberg 930 3 Gun Prototypes there for demo. Estimated price is $600-800 range and these are supposedly 3 gun ready. I shoot a Benelli, but I am going to check one out.
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Posted: 10/16/2011 1:47:08 PM EST
I know nothing about 3-gun, but I'd like to get into it. In you guy's opinion, what is the best value shotgun out there? I don't mind buying something expensive, but like every other gun product, I imagine there's a point of diminishing returns. Where's that price sweet spot when it comes to shotguns?
IPSICK
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Posted: 10/16/2011 10:34:39 PM EST
Off the top of my head, Mossberg 930 (you'll need to order a non-ported barrel and tube extension), CZ 712 Utility (needs a tube extension), used Remington 1100, or used Benelli M1.

If you want new and pretty much ready to go, then a FN SLP Mk1 should work. This will cost a few hundred more than the prior suggestions but will also be several hundred dollars cheaper than a ready to go Benelli M2.
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Posted: 11/14/2011 7:36:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/14/2011 7:36:27 PM EST by 33shooter]
Yeah, this is a little old but. If you need to buy a shotgun for 3 gun, in my opinion the FN SLP MK1 is the best out of the box. Just add ammo, a "oh shit I'm dry" 2 shell holder, and your set. (I put a saddle on mine) Mine is like a sewing machine.

I've only seen 1 of the Mossbergs run without a hiccup. All of the others I've seen had issues, some had to get another gun just to finish the match. The 1 I saw that ran good was run by Jerry at the Texas Multigun Championship this year.
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Posted: 2/23/2012 2:23:48 PM EST
I have a Benelli Supernova tactical with ghost ring sights. Yeah its not the new M2 3gun special but its
A great SG for the money.
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:13:44 PM EST
For open its a customized Saiga or the new AKDAL as the guns to get. The Benelli or FN with a Xrail is also good. Some old timers cling to their tube guns and speed loaders though.
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EvilBert
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Posted: 5/6/2012 7:59:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By 3GunNation:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']
Optimal barrel lengths are between 22 to 24 inches and having a shotgun magazine capable of holding 8 rounds is necessary to be competitive.



Wile longer than 22" is acceptable, I would not call it optimal. A 20-22" barrel over an 8 shot tube would be 'optimal'.
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Posted: 5/6/2012 3:52:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By EvilBert:
Originally Posted By 3GunNation:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']
Optimal barrel lengths are between 22 to 24 inches and having a shotgun magazine capable of holding 8 rounds is necessary to be competitive.



Wile longer than 22" is acceptable, I would not call it optimal. A 20-22" barrel over an 8 shot tube would be 'optimal'.


I'm seeing more and more 26" barrels at matches these days. And almost no one in the top 20 run just an 8 round tube anymore, some using as long as an 11 or 12 round tube. Only 9 in the gun at the start, but after the beep capacity is not limited at most matches.

My Heavy Metal shotgun is a 24", my autoloader is a 26". The more I shoot the longer barreled guns, the more I like them. In the last 3 or 4 years at major matches, the only stage I've shot that a long barrel was a hindrance was the '09 Blue Ridge and that damn little tunnel w/ low ports.