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 75 gr Hornady load help please?
JustAGuy2020  [Member]
1/6/2012 9:17:13 PM
I'm trying to set up an OCW development using the Hornady 75 Gr BTHP #2279 bullet and Varget.

My Lyman manual only lists load data for the 75 gr AMax and the COAL for this bullet is listed as 2.390.

My .223 caliber specific book doesn't list ANY 75 gr bullets, the Hodgdon site lists only a 75 GR. JLK VLD.

Would anybody be willing to take a look in their Hornady manual and see if there's any data listed for this Hornady 75 Gr BTHP #2279 bullet and Varget.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Sam
robpiat  [Member]
1/6/2012 9:39:48 PM
You don't need a book for every load. Take a look at other powders with that bullet and compare them to the varget. Take a look at the varget loads with similar bullets. This is all science and math, not magic. You are not going to be loading out to 2.39 in an AR. I would start around 22 Grains and work up in .3 - .5 increments. Nothing shocking is going to happen working up like that with a known powder.

Odds are you are going to end up around 24-24.5 grains being a good load.
Rocco123  [Team Member]
1/6/2012 9:40:47 PM
For service rifle data, it has 2.25 OAL, 19.4gr (varget) starting, 23.5gr max. That is 7th edition data.

JustAGuy2020  [Member]
1/6/2012 9:52:38 PM
Originally Posted By Rocco123:
For service rifle data, it has 2.25 OAL, 19.4gr (varget) starting, 23.5gr max. That is 7th edition data.



Thanks Rocco. I appreciate the help.

Sam
Firefinder37  [Member]
1/6/2012 9:57:30 PM
Just because you asked so nice and I happen to have my Hornady manual next to me.

Hornady 8th edition

Bullet - Hornady BTHP #2279
Case - Winchester
Primer - Winchester Small Rifle
C.O.L. - 2.250"
Powder - Varget
Min - 19.4gr (2200fps)
Max - 23.5gr (2600fps)

Hornady implies they got best accuracy using N-140 powder, and I have to agree, my rifle performs better with N-140 powder.

Bullet - Hornady BTHP #2279
Case - Winchester
Primer - Winchester Small Rifle
C.O.L. - 2.250"
Powder - Vihtavuori N-140
Min - 20.0gr(2200fps)
Max - 23.6gr (2600fps)



AeroE  [Moderator]
1/6/2012 10:09:54 PM
Originally Posted By JustAGuy2020:
Originally Posted By Rocco123:
For service rifle data, it has 2.25 OAL, 19.4gr (varget) starting, 23.5gr max. That is 7th edition data.



Thanks Rocco. I appreciate the help.

Sam


You should understand that the 75 grain VMAX is intended for single loading in AR's or real long magazines in other rifles. The FAQ has a photo of one loaded to AR magazine length.

robpiat  [Member]
1/7/2012 12:45:32 AM
We've had this discussion before. 23.5 is not a 556 max load. That's the downgraded reloading book 223 load. Work it up, look for pressure.
Firefinder37  [Member]
1/7/2012 1:54:23 AM
He asked for a Hornady manual listing..................what is the problem?
Jason280  [Team Member]
1/7/2012 2:15:41 AM
24gr Varget with a 75/77gr bullet loaded to mag length has always worked well in my ARs.
eddiesar15  [Member]
1/7/2012 3:44:42 PM
when I 1st started shooting the hornady MHPBT 75gr bullet about 10 yrs ago, I couldnt find good load data for it "at that time"...so I ball park,d and came up with what others have mentiond.

Ive got 23.7gr of varget, standard aol, comming out of a 24" 1-8 tube @ 2810fps.
consistant patterns
i prefer hornady,s 68gr MHPBT, but thats neither here nor there.


good luck
makintrax73  [Member]
1/7/2012 4:40:24 PM
Lee 2nd lists 22.5 - 25.0 Varget w/ 75 grain bullet.

Seems odd that they would end up over a grain higher than the other manuals to me, but there it is. I would be pretty cautious going any higher than what the other manuals are telling you.

ETA: I've had consistent good accuracy with 24 grains of RE15 with that bullet in my rifles, but then again none of my AR's are target rifles and I never really tried for anything more than 1 to 1.5 MOA.
Plebius15  [Member]
1/7/2012 6:55:51 PM
Hornady's manual is VERY conservative. You can typically add edited. AeroE to their max rifle loads. But I would check other sources for more information.
acebanana  [Member]
1/7/2012 8:14:51 PM
I'm using the same bullet for my first time reloading, and how important is the COL? That is as long as it isn't over the max COL (In my Lee die set it says 2.260, but in the hornady book for the a-max rounds it's longer?). Is 2.260" just magazine length and it can actually be longer if you single load it as long as the bullet isn't touching the rifling? Sorry if this is way too off topic.
JustAGuy2020  [Member]
1/7/2012 9:45:40 PM
Originally Posted By acebanana:
I'm using the same bullet for my first time reloading, and how important is the COL? That is as long as it isn't over the max COL (In my Lee die set it says 2.260, but in the hornady book for the a-max rounds it's longer?). Is 2.260" just magazine length and it can actually be longer if you single load it as long as the bullet isn't touching the rifling? Sorry if this is way too off topic.


Banana,

No worries at all. I'm new to reloading too, been loading for .223 in my AR for a few months now and am having a great time. I also realize that sometimes the data can be confusing. This is one of those cases.

My understanding is that the 2.260 OAL measurement you see in the manuals is a function of mag length for autoloaders and not a function of some standard chamber length for guns that shoot the .223 cartridge. In the case of the AMax, there's a longer OAL because that bullet is so long and with a shape that would make it impossible to safely seat it in the case and still remain < or = 2.260 OAL. I think we could load up some cartridges with the long AMax bullets but would have to load them into the chamber by hand.

Sam

AeroE  [Moderator]
1/7/2012 9:50:39 PM
Originally Posted By acebanana:
I'm using the same bullet for my first time reloading, and how important is the COL? That is as long as it isn't over the max COL (In my Lee die set it says 2.260, but in the hornady book for the a-max rounds it's longer?). Is 2.260" just magazine length and it can actually be longer if you single load it as long as the bullet isn't touching the rifling? Sorry if this is way too off topic.


COAL is important. But if you want to load the AMAX bullet out for single loading, that is okay, too.

Year before last I chambered a 9 twist barrel expressly to shoot this bullet in .22-250 cartridges. I was amazed that no adjustment was needed to the usual COAL for this cartridge, and the bullet shoots great in this rifle.

JustAGuy2020  [Member]
1/7/2012 9:52:26 PM
Makintrax,

Thanks for the help. This is EXACTLY why I asked for the Hornady book values. My Lyman manual is also quite a bit higher than Hornady.

What this tells me is that the start load from the Hornady book is probably a good minimum to start with but if I work up slowly, in say, .3 gr increments, I will probably be able to go significantly higher than the Hornady max before I start to see pressure signs.

In reading the other manuals max load, I know that SOMEBODY has fired that load in some barrel somewhere but I'm unwilling to start there.

This is also why I'm unwilling to compare other powders to Varget and guess at where I'll end up (see first response to this question). Don't want to end up in the hospital.

Sam
acebanana  [Member]
1/7/2012 10:18:52 PM
Originally Posted By JustAGuy2020:
Originally Posted By acebanana:
I'm using the same bullet for my first time reloading, and how important is the COL? That is as long as it isn't over the max COL (In my Lee die set it says 2.260, but in the hornady book for the a-max rounds it's longer?). Is 2.260" just magazine length and it can actually be longer if you single load it as long as the bullet isn't touching the rifling? Sorry if this is way too off topic.


Banana,

No worries at all. I'm new to reloading too, been loading for .223 in my AR for a few months now and am having a great time. I also realize that sometimes the data can be confusing. This is one of those cases.

My understanding is that the 2.260 OAL measurement you see in the manuals is a function of mag length for autoloaders and not a function of some standard chamber length for guns that shoot the .223 cartridge. In the case of the AMax, there's a longer OAL because that bullet is so long and with a shape that would make it impossible to safely seat it in the case and still remain < or = 2.260 OAL. I think we could load up some cartridges with the long AMax bullets but would have to load them into the chamber by hand.

Sam



Alright that makes sense, thanks! And yea I'm really enjoying it too, can't wait to get out to the range next weekend and shoot my first reloads! So far the only problem I've really had to just trying to get the powder charges consistent to the .1 grain. I'm assuming I haven't ran enough powder through (using the lee perfect powder measure) to get rid of the static electricity. I think I'll run a couple hoppers through tomorrow when it's warmer and see how that goes, it's been freezing lately.

eddiesar15  [Member]
1/7/2012 10:28:56 PM
Originally Posted By acebanana:
Originally Posted By JustAGuy2020:
Originally Posted By acebanana:
I'm using the same bullet for my first time reloading, and how important is the COL? That is as long as it isn't over the max COL (In my Lee die set it says 2.260, but in the hornady book for the a-max rounds it's longer?). Is 2.260" just magazine length and it can actually be longer if you single load it as long as the bullet isn't touching the rifling? Sorry if this is way too off topic.


Banana,

No worries at all. I'm new to reloading too, been loading for .223 in my AR for a few months now and am having a great time. I also realize that sometimes the data can be confusing. This is one of those cases.

My understanding is that the 2.260 OAL measurement you see in the manuals is a function of mag length for autoloaders and not a function of some standard chamber length for guns that shoot the .223 cartridge. In the case of the AMax, there's a longer OAL because that bullet is so long and with a shape that would make it impossible to safely seat it in the case and still remain < or = 2.260 OAL. I think we could load up some cartridges with the long AMax bullets but would have to load them into the chamber by hand.

Sam



Alright that makes sense, thanks! And yea I'm really enjoying it too, can't wait to get out to the range next weekend and shoot my first reloads! So far the only problem I've really had to just trying to get the powder charges consistent to the .1 grain. I'm assuming I haven't ran enough powder through (using the lee perfect powder measure) to get rid of the static electricity. I think I'll run a couple hoppers through tomorrow when it's warmer and see how that goes, it's been freezing lately.


the only way youll be able to get a precise everyrtime drop is you have to use a trickler wether it be mechanical or electronic...for me...Ill use a trickler for my match target loads but for my blow ammo?..I just set my rsbs uniflow to whatever i want and drop
acebanana  [Member]
1/7/2012 10:35:05 PM
Originally Posted By eddiesar15:
Originally Posted By acebanana:
Originally Posted By JustAGuy2020:
Originally Posted By acebanana:
I'm using the same bullet for my first time reloading, and how important is the COL? That is as long as it isn't over the max COL (In my Lee die set it says 2.260, but in the hornady book for the a-max rounds it's longer?). Is 2.260" just magazine length and it can actually be longer if you single load it as long as the bullet isn't touching the rifling? Sorry if this is way too off topic.


Banana,

No worries at all. I'm new to reloading too, been loading for .223 in my AR for a few months now and am having a great time. I also realize that sometimes the data can be confusing. This is one of those cases.

My understanding is that the 2.260 OAL measurement you see in the manuals is a function of mag length for autoloaders and not a function of some standard chamber length for guns that shoot the .223 cartridge. In the case of the AMax, there's a longer OAL because that bullet is so long and with a shape that would make it impossible to safely seat it in the case and still remain < or = 2.260 OAL. I think we could load up some cartridges with the long AMax bullets but would have to load them into the chamber by hand.

Sam



Alright that makes sense, thanks! And yea I'm really enjoying it too, can't wait to get out to the range next weekend and shoot my first reloads! So far the only problem I've really had to just trying to get the powder charges consistent to the .1 grain. I'm assuming I haven't ran enough powder through (using the lee perfect powder measure) to get rid of the static electricity. I think I'll run a couple hoppers through tomorrow when it's warmer and see how that goes, it's been freezing lately.


the only way youll be able to get a precise everyrtime drop is you have to use a trickler wether it be mechanical or electronic...for me...Ill use a trickler for my match target loads but for my blow ammo?..I just set my rsbs uniflow to whatever i want and drop


Yea I figured it wouldn't be extremely accurate but like one trow was 21.1grains then the next was 20.9grains, etc. Is that acceptable? I'm not looking for really good match quality, just stuff that shoots decent.

abpt1  [Team Member]
1/7/2012 10:37:20 PM



LOL I am loading a few 75gr HPBT with Varget in the morning......going to load 10 of each from 23gr-24gr in .3 increments and see how that works...
JustAGuy2020  [Member]
1/8/2012 1:20:01 AM
Ace,

What powder are you using?

Sam
acebanana  [Member]
1/8/2012 4:05:20 PM
Originally Posted By JustAGuy2020:
Ace,

What powder are you using?

Sam


I'm using Varget.
JustAGuy2020  [Member]
1/8/2012 6:36:57 PM
I also have the Lee Perfect Powder measure.

I love the accuracy I get out of Varget but absolutely hate working with it. As a matter of fact, I just loaded up 150 rounds with Varget last night.

I trickled up 50 rounds and loaded 100 more measuring every 10th round. One thing that seems to help improve consistency when throwing the charges with this measure, is to raise the handle, wait a second for all the powder to drop and then when you lower the handle to the bottom, do it pretty firmly. Then raise the handle just a bit again and tap again. I was getting very consistent throws last night doing this (+- .1 gr which is pretty good for Varget).
acebanana  [Member]
1/8/2012 6:47:15 PM
Alright I think I'll try that, I was only moving the handle in one direction. That and I think I might try and find a better surface for the scale, was having trouble trying to find a level surface in the building :p
chewbacca  [Team Member]
1/8/2012 7:58:05 PM
24.0 works good for me with Varget and the 75 gr.
abpt1  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 8:30:44 AM
Yep thats how I do it
Originally Posted By JustAGuy2020:
I also have the Lee Perfect Powder measure.

I love the accuracy I get out of Varget but absolutely hate working with it. As a matter of fact, I just loaded up 150 rounds with Varget last night.

I trickled up 50 rounds and loaded 100 more measuring every 10th round. One thing that seems to help improve consistency when throwing the charges with this measure, is to raise the handle, wait a second for all the powder to drop and then when you lower the handle to the bottom, do it pretty firmly. Then raise the handle just a bit again and tap again. I was getting very consistent throws last night doing this (+- .1 gr which is pretty good for Varget).


AeroE  [Moderator]
1/10/2012 11:09:10 AM
Originally Posted By acebanana:
Originally Posted By eddiesar15:
Originally Posted By acebanana:
Originally Posted By JustAGuy2020:
Originally Posted By acebanana:
I'm using the same bullet for my first time reloading, and how important is the COL? That is as long as it isn't over the max COL (In my Lee die set it says 2.260, but in the hornady book for the a-max rounds it's longer?). Is 2.260" just magazine length and it can actually be longer if you single load it as long as the bullet isn't touching the rifling? Sorry if this is way too off topic.


Banana,

No worries at all. I'm new to reloading too, been loading for .223 in my AR for a few months now and am having a great time. I also realize that sometimes the data can be confusing. This is one of those cases.

My understanding is that the 2.260 OAL measurement you see in the manuals is a function of mag length for autoloaders and not a function of some standard chamber length for guns that shoot the .223 cartridge. In the case of the AMax, there's a longer OAL because that bullet is so long and with a shape that would make it impossible to safely seat it in the case and still remain < or = 2.260 OAL. I think we could load up some cartridges with the long AMax bullets but would have to load them into the chamber by hand.

Sam



Alright that makes sense, thanks! And yea I'm really enjoying it too, can't wait to get out to the range next weekend and shoot my first reloads! So far the only problem I've really had to just trying to get the powder charges consistent to the .1 grain. I'm assuming I haven't ran enough powder through (using the lee perfect powder measure) to get rid of the static electricity. I think I'll run a couple hoppers through tomorrow when it's warmer and see how that goes, it's been freezing lately.


the only way youll be able to get a precise everyrtime drop is you have to use a trickler wether it be mechanical or electronic...for me...Ill use a trickler for my match target loads but for my blow ammo?..I just set my rsbs uniflow to whatever i want and drop


Yea I figured it wouldn't be extremely accurate but like one trow was 21.1grains then the next was 20.9grains, etc. Is that acceptable? I'm not looking for really good match quality, just stuff that shoots decent.



That is excellent uniformity and about as good as it gets without trickling or throwing a ball powder. You won't notice the difference on a target until you're way out there, do all the case prep steps, and shoot good bullets through good barrels.

alphajaguars  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 11:19:30 AM
One other thing when using this (and my understanding most OTM rounds) - the OAL will vary. Don't freak out like I did and spend an hour trying to get each load to the exact same length.
Mahamotorworks  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 10:49:50 PM
If you are still having issues with static take a dryer sheet and go to town on the hopper. It helped with my Lee PPM.

MAHA