AR15.Com Archives
 Original XM177E1 anodized aluminum stock
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/8/2013 6:09:03 PM
this item was on my want list but i knew it was pretty hard to find so it was on more of a wish list than list of things i thought i could actually get.

well after some luck and more money than i wanted to spend, this stock has made it's way into my hands.

it came off a property of us gov't marked colt ar15 - serial 9019XX

stock body is marked 1 NN under the latch, latch is marked Newton, something underneath and a 1, the buffer tube has a dimple on the back end, i don't think it's a drainhole.

obligatory pics:









FMJ52  [Member]
3/8/2013 6:12:50 PM
Nice find... Plan for a new project?
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/8/2013 6:17:12 PM
Originally Posted By FMJ52:
Nice find... Plan for a new project?


just collecting hoarding parts. parts are so much easier to store than completed rifles.
RRiggs  [Team Member]
3/8/2013 6:19:12 PM
Nice score!
Stoner25mkiv  [Member]
3/8/2013 6:29:37 PM
does the "dimple" go all the way through? if it does, just a vent hole to let air escape from behind the buffer when fired?????
SandWMandP15Tee  [Member]
3/8/2013 6:32:18 PM
Very Nice Find, Indeed !
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/8/2013 6:33:45 PM
Originally Posted By Stoner25mkiv:
does the "dimple" go all the way through? if it does, just a vent hole to let air escape from behind the buffer when fired?????


i poked at it a little and it didn't appear to go all the way through, a look inside the tube with a flashlight doesn't show anything. i'll try with a paperclip later. good thing it already has that been there done that look so i don't have to worry about any scratches
fastswift  [Member]
3/8/2013 6:42:27 PM
I don't like you anymore. You know how long I have been wanting one of those?




(Actually I do still like you - that was the "green with envy" side of my brain typing)
Kaiserman  [Member]
3/8/2013 6:47:41 PM
Very nice. This isn't the one that was on EE for sale in Europe is it?
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/8/2013 10:08:34 PM
Originally Posted By Kaiserman:
Very nice. This isn't the one that was on EE for sale in Europe is it?


yep it made a trip from the US -> Vietnam -> ??? -> France -> US over 50 years. if it could only speak.
Mendecko  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 1:11:46 AM

Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By Kaiserman:
Very nice. This isn't the one that was on EE for sale in Europe is it?


yep it made a trip from the US -> Vietnam -> ??? -> France -> US over 50 years. if it could only speak.

Wow... quite a journey. Very Cool
Dodger57  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 1:14:51 AM
Love it - nice buy!!
mike62  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 2:23:50 AM
Congratulations - you are living proof RBRD never goes away...
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 2:27:26 AM
Originally Posted By mike62:
Congratulations - you are living proof RBRD never goes away...


i've had a few hobbies over the years but i've stuck with this one the longest. and it's done the most damage to my wallet. but the thrill of the hunt and the rush/high you get when you find something you've been looking for is hard to beat.
Hal143  [Member]
3/9/2013 4:12:04 AM
Super nice find !
BROvet04  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 6:07:33 AM
Awesome! Will be cool to see a completed carbine!
m1sniper  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 9:50:05 AM
EXCELLENT!!!! I'll trade ya 2 carbon steel early bends for it.
Morg308  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 10:24:39 AM
Here's a stock I've been puzzling over. I offered to give it to m1sniper years ago, then lost it. No kidding. I thought I must have sent it and it got lost in the mail. So, I asked him if he needed it and he said no - the project was done. I'm kind of glad, (sorry sniper) because now I am really wondering if it's a toolroom test piece. What's odd to me is that it's a casting, but has both very well done machining and butchery done with a grinding wheel - as if two people were involved or in a hurry. The tube is the same way - even the lock ring looks home-made, with purple anodizing. Comparisons are with a Colt Fiberite w/ Colt tube.



The same guy who did this: (Note the incredible thickness of the 'T' section BTW.)



Did this?



Note the thickness of the material. The butt is ground down flat by a monkey on a grinder, but was still thicker than the plate on the alu stocks I had.







Whoever made this latch knew what they were doing. It was bent in a die from what I can tell. Slightly different in size too, but Olgunner didn't relay that pic. The latch pin hole on top of the stock looks like it was added almost as an afterthought - maybe that's why it's not straight? Looks like the remains of Dykem blue on each side.



The oddness continues to the tube. It seems commercial size, but is handmade. With tubes available, why would you make one? It's also longer than a normal tube, and the flat for the ring at the threads wasn't broached deeply enough. (hard to see.)



This is the weld where they added the latch channel.



Look at the grind marks - ugliest buffer tube in the world.



Small, thin, purple ring, unfinished on ends.



One more pic - look how the tube hole is offset. It's like the casting itself is flawed. (It's not drilled, or finished on the inside from what I can tell - it's rough)





Last piece of evidence: Check out the lower sling slot in the middle of this stock. It's much wider than normal, as is the one on mine. That doesn't mean anything of course, but I am really of the opinion that this could be a toolroom prototype. Why would you go to the trouble of making a tube, and where would you get the casting to begin with? It's just crazy. I asked Dewatters and Armeiro what they knew, and Armeiro mentioned some toolroom pics of Rob Roy's early efforts. I would love to see these. Anyway, at this point I think I will need to use this stock. It just blows my mind. The mixture of machining and 'who gives a crap - it's never leaving the shop - I just want to see if it works' makes me think it is a prototype rather than something a guy did for himself. What thinks the hive?







armeiro  [Member]
3/9/2013 12:18:47 PM
For the rough of the surface and for the screw nut on the pin my limited knowledge makes my vote go for home made pice.



Is this a screw nut?



Can the charging handle move back over the stock with the machined section not at center?

Carbines from Reed Knight







http://www.silencertalk.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5415
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 12:20:33 PM
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
EXCELLENT!!!! I'll trade ya 2 carbon steel early bends for it.


you're done with builds though

it would just move from my parts box to yours.
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 12:23:10 PM
Morg308,

Raw castings were certainly out there.

Check my old thread here:
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=529105

I was able to get these cleaned up and powdercoated. They were a little rougher than the B marked and Colt ones. Even rougher than the 2 or 4 marked ones with the waffle pattern cut into it.
armeiro  [Member]
3/9/2013 12:25:15 PM
"ADJUSTABLE BUTTSTOCK ASSEMBLY" patent by Robert Earl Roy (Rob Roy)



http://www.google.com/patents/US3348328?printsec=drawing&hl=pt-BR&dq=colt++but+stock&ei=n287UZjMG8yxhAfT1ICYBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
Morg308  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 12:57:03 PM
Yes, the top is angled, and I don't know if a carry handle would clear or not, and the flat is ground down, not machined like other parts. This begs the question: if it were a hom-brew, why go to all the trouble of machining parts of it, then take a grinder to it the way they did? If you did use a grinder, wouldn't you try and make it even so it was usable? Why would you make a buffer tube rather than just buy one? Now if you were told by the design engineer 'I need this ready for a meeting in 10 minutes' and gave it to your apprentice and told him to grind down the butt so it wouldn't scratch the conference table, then drill a hole in the top so you could assemble it while you made a latch, oh, and grind a flat on top while your at it, hey, maybe he wasn't a great apprentice. I've asked guys working for me to do something before, but apparently wasn't specific enough. I just don't know why someone with the fabrication skills to make the tube (look at the milling by the weld) and milled in front of the latch, would not take the time to do the rest nicely if it were a home build. It seems like a rush job to me.

ETA: The hole for the tube was broached, not drilled from what I see. This takes tools and skills. I don't think this was ever supposed to be anything more than a rough demo piece. As someone who has made several prototypes for inventions, the first one is always rough - you never plan on keeping it. it's often done quickly. The second and third are made more carefully, using what you learned from the first. Just my .02

ETA2: Lionel - is the front of those castings offset like mine? (broached buffer tube hole not centered) I am thinking you are onto something. Still, my latch is not a casting, and the milling looks different. I really don't know.
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 1:05:16 PM
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Yes, the top is angled, and I don't know if a carry handle would clear or not, and the flat is ground down, not machined like other parts. This begs the question: if it were a hom-brew, why go to all the trouble of machining parts of it, then take a grinder to it the way they did? If you did use a grinder, wouldn't you try and make it even so it was usable? Why would you make a buffer tube rather than just buy one? Now if you were told by the design engineer 'I need this ready for a meeting in 10 minutes' and gave it to your apprentice and told him to grind down the butt so it wouldn't scratch the conference table, then drill a hole in the top so you could assemble it while you made a latch, oh, and grind a flat on top while your at it, hey, maybe he wasn't a great apprentice. I've asked guys working for me to do something before, but apparently wasn't specific enough. I just don't know why someone with the fabrication skills to make the tube (look at the milling by the weld) and milled in front of the latch, would not take the time to do the rest nicely if it were a home build. It seems like a rush job to me.


with the ones i got, the castings were hit or miss and the machining was even moreso. some of the holes drilled for the plunger were way off center. some latches also had serious grind marks too.

there was a point when the demand for ar15s were high in the 80s and some parts couldn't be found so people had to get creative. like nessard making their own sight wheels, epc's, buffer tubes, etc.... It was also a time where people would cut off their carry handles, mill the receiver flat and attach rails to A1 uppers before A3s were available.
Morg308  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 1:10:30 PM
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Yes, the top is angled, and I don't know if a carry handle would clear or not, and the flat is ground down, not machined like other parts. This begs the question: if it were a hom-brew, why go to all the trouble of machining parts of it, then take a grinder to it the way they did? If you did use a grinder, wouldn't you try and make it even so it was usable? Why would you make a buffer tube rather than just buy one? Now if you were told by the design engineer 'I need this ready for a meeting in 10 minutes' and gave it to your apprentice and told him to grind down the butt so it wouldn't scratch the conference table, then drill a hole in the top so you could assemble it while you made a latch, oh, and grind a flat on top while your at it, hey, maybe he wasn't a great apprentice. I've asked guys working for me to do something before, but apparently wasn't specific enough. I just don't know why someone with the fabrication skills to make the tube (look at the milling by the weld) and milled in front of the latch, would not take the time to do the rest nicely if it were a home build. It seems like a rush job to me.


with the ones i got, the castings were hit or miss and the machining was even moreso. some of the holes drilled for the plunger were way off center. some latches also had serious grind marks too.

there was a point when the demand for ar15s were high in the 80s and some parts couldn't be found so people had to get creative. like nessard making their own sight wheels, epc's, buffer tubes, etc.... It was also a time where people would cut off their carry handles, mill the receiver flat and attach rails to A1 uppers before A3s were available.


I think you are probably right. Whoever finished this though needs a good rap upside the head. Holy crap it's ugly. Making your own receiver extension though? really? Again, my latch if press-formed, not a casting. It's very clear.
Hal143  [Member]
3/9/2013 1:26:30 PM
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Yes, the top is angled, and I don't know if a carry handle would clear or not, and the flat is ground down, not machined like other parts. This begs the question: if it were a hom-brew, why go to all the trouble of machining parts of it, then take a grinder to it the way they did? If you did use a grinder, wouldn't you try and make it even so it was usable? Why would you make a buffer tube rather than just buy one? Now if you were told by the design engineer 'I need this ready for a meeting in 10 minutes' and gave it to your apprentice and told him to grind down the butt so it wouldn't scratch the conference table, then drill a hole in the top so you could assemble it while you made a latch, oh, and grind a flat on top while your at it, hey, maybe he wasn't a great apprentice. I've asked guys working for me to do something before, but apparently wasn't specific enough. I just don't know why someone with the fabrication skills to make the tube (look at the milling by the weld) and milled in front of the latch, would not take the time to do the rest nicely if it were a home build. It seems like a rush job to me.


with the ones i got, the castings were hit or miss and the machining was even moreso. some of the holes drilled for the plunger were way off center. some latches also had serious grind marks too.

there was a point when the demand for ar15s were high in the 80s and some parts couldn't be found so people had to get creative. like nessard making their own sight wheels, epc's, buffer tubes, etc.... It was also a time where people would cut off their carry handles, mill the receiver flat and attach rails to A1 uppers before A3s were available.


Boy do I ever remember that time. I built my first XM177 in 1982 from scratch from parts by SGW and Olympic. SGW even had the repro prototype slip ring .
I had all the goodies; 10" bl., 6 hole HG's, proto slip ring, all A1 parts. Perfect........................except no Colt metal stock. Back then Colt would not sell the stock to the public seperately. All that was available was the plastic stock.

One day at work a buddy told me he had a new SP1 carbine that he got from a friend who's wife threw the BCG away to disable the gun. He needed a Bolt group badly. So I offered a new BCG for his new Colt stock and he said yes. I threw in a new plastic car stock so he could shoot. Everyone was happy. I was soooo happy to get that first CAR Colt stock back then.
m1sniper  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 1:58:36 PM
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
EXCELLENT!!!! I'll trade ya 2 carbon steel early bends for it.


you're done with builds though

it would just move from my parts box to yours.

Nope,It would be joined with the original MP (early) marked, NOT C MP C as shown in RBR,, XM177E2 barrel I have.

boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 2:15:34 PM
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
EXCELLENT!!!! I'll trade ya 2 carbon steel early bends for it.


you're done with builds though

it would just move from my parts box to yours.

Nope,It would be joined with the original MP (early) marked, NOT C MP C as shown in RBR,, XM177E2 barrel I have.



nice. i still haven't run across any retro carbines outside the later SP1 barrels.
m1sniper  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 5:50:08 PM
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
EXCELLENT!!!! I'll trade ya 2 carbon steel early bends for it.


you're done with builds though

it would just move from my parts box to yours.

Nope,It would be joined with the original MP (early) marked, NOT C MP C as shown in RBR,, XM177E2 barrel I have.



nice. i still haven't run across any retro carbines outside the later SP1 barrels.

Ahhhh hell LL,it would only take a Winchester 1/14 601 barrel to get me to part with this barrel!!!! Tehehehehehe

boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/9/2013 7:08:32 PM
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
EXCELLENT!!!! I'll trade ya 2 carbon steel early bends for it.


you're done with builds though

it would just move from my parts box to yours.

Nope,It would be joined with the original MP (early) marked, NOT C MP C as shown in RBR,, XM177E2 barrel I have.



nice. i still haven't run across any retro carbines outside the later SP1 barrels.

Ahhhh hell LL,it would only take a Winchester 1/14 601 barrel to get me to part with this barrel!!!! Tehehehehehe



is that all?
m1sniper  [Team Member]
3/10/2013 7:20:50 AM
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By m1sniper:
EXCELLENT!!!! I'll trade ya 2 carbon steel early bends for it.


you're done with builds though

it would just move from my parts box to yours.

Nope,It would be joined with the original MP (early) marked, NOT C MP C as shown in RBR,, XM177E2 barrel I have.



nice. i still haven't run across any retro carbines outside the later SP1 barrels.

Ahhhh hell LL,it would only take a Winchester 1/14 601 barrel to get me to part with this barrel!!!! Tehehehehehe



is that all?

Hummmmm,,you're right..Rarity wise,,toss in a set of nice 601 HGs,,,and we'll talk.

RMiller  [Member]
3/12/2013 11:10:25 AM
Very nice indeed!

2 of them in Texas now....
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/12/2013 3:00:06 PM
Originally Posted By RMiller:
Very nice indeed!

2 of them in Texas now....


how many are there out there that we know of?
RMiller  [Member]
3/13/2013 12:08:09 PM
In retro members hands, you have the second original that I know of outside of museums and KAC.
Stahlgewehr762  [Member]
3/14/2013 12:00:49 AM
That is the first one I've seen detached from its original carbine. Those are a different and far more scarce creature from the already scarce vinyl-acetate covered ones. A seriously cool retro score, congratulations!
jack57000  [Member]
3/14/2013 4:29:03 AM

it's funny... i have replaced it from my old carbine and put a nice like new vinyl-acetate covered one

everybody here has never see one for sale, but nobody sent me an offer !

i have waited more than 3 month before selling it ...so guy gets up
OlGunner  [Team Member]
3/14/2013 1:49:19 PM
OK, so educated me. What is the finish on this one?
shrikefan  [Team Member]
3/14/2013 1:55:28 PM
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
OK, so educated me. What is the finish on this one?


Sounds like they used powdered unicorn horns.

boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/14/2013 3:26:09 PM
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
OK, so educated me. What is the finish on this one?


just worn grey anodizing as far as i can tell.
Morg308  [Team Member]
3/14/2013 4:03:23 PM
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
OK, so educated me. What is the finish on this one?


just worn grey anodizing as far as i can tell.


I had a very nice grey anodized one (XM grey - same exact as NDS) but it was Bushy. Surprised me a little - really nice. Sold it recently to a member here.
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/14/2013 4:06:06 PM
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
OK, so educated me. What is the finish on this one?


just worn grey anodizing as far as i can tell.


I had a very nice grey anodized one (XM grey - same exact as NDS) but it was Bushy. Surprised me a little - really nice. Sold it recently to a member here.


yep, i've got one of those as well. it has a large B on the side vs the smaller one that is more common.
Morg308  [Team Member]
3/14/2013 4:26:49 PM
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
OK, so educated me. What is the finish on this one?


just worn grey anodizing as far as i can tell.


I had a very nice grey anodized one (XM grey - same exact as NDS) but it was Bushy. Surprised me a little - really nice. Sold it recently to a member here.


yep, i've got one of those as well. it has a large B on the side vs the smaller one that is more common.


Can't remember if mine was small or large, but I regret selling it. Well hell, I regret selling ALL the parts I've sold int he last 5 years. I think at this point I'm going to finish my proto build, the 605, SBR my pistol and be done with it. It's discouraging.
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/14/2013 6:11:12 PM
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Originally Posted By boywonder777:
Originally Posted By OlGunner:
OK, so educated me. What is the finish on this one?


just worn grey anodizing as far as i can tell.


I had a very nice grey anodized one (XM grey - same exact as NDS) but it was Bushy. Surprised me a little - really nice. Sold it recently to a member here.


yep, i've got one of those as well. it has a large B on the side vs the smaller one that is more common.


Can't remember if mine was small or large, but I regret selling it. Well hell, I regret selling ALL the parts I've sold int he last 5 years. I think at this point I'm going to finish my proto build, the 605, SBR my pistol and be done with it. It's discouraging.


found pics of my grey bushmaster anodized stock here:
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=411166




Banshee35  [Member]
3/14/2013 9:49:01 PM
Nice carbine! I'm in the process of building one right now. To round out your IDF accessories Numrich has GI bipods in IDF marked carriers if you're interested.
Joker_from_TN  [Member]
3/15/2013 2:54:44 PM
Well, as the member here who Morg sold that anodized XM gray Bushmaster stock to (and thank you again) I feel bad that he regrets it. I have it mounted on my XM177E2 clone at the moment sitting on a 6-hole black tube, but I know it's not "correct" for what my carbine is supposed to have. So I had an idea. I don't know if this would work for all parties involved or not, so I hope no one gets mad at me for suggesting it, but...

I see where Boywonder77 has a GB auction going on right now for a smooth black aluminum stock on a two-hole tube. That would probably look closer to correct on my weapon than what I have now. And Morg regrets having sold the one that is currently on mine. So; any interest in a trade with my stock and tube to Boywonder for his smooth black aluminum stock and two-hole tube, and then Boywonder selling Morg back his old anodized stock? That way, everyone gets what they want- Morg gets his stock back, I get my XM177E2 closer to "correct", and Boywonder gets to sell his stock and tube.

Again; just an idea. What do you guys think?
761mph  [Member]
3/22/2013 8:23:01 PM
nice looking carbine

i am wondering where you acquired the 90* magazine block the Israelis use ?
and if they are still available ?
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/22/2013 9:25:10 PM
Originally Posted By 761mph:
nice looking carbine

i am wondering where you acquired the 90* magazine block the Israelis use ?
and if they are still available ?


i don't recall where i got it from, it was years ago but zahal has the here:

http://www.zahal.org/products/magazine-holder-mamach?path_parent=218285

yankee-V  [Team Member]
3/22/2013 10:35:29 PM


Nice stock. Wish they weren't quite so rare. Nice carbine all around BTW.
mg4201  [Member]
3/23/2013 12:33:18 PM
Thats a pretty cool find. I am more than a little jealous.
boywonder777  [Team Member]
3/23/2013 12:35:57 PM
Originally Posted By mg4201:
Thats a pretty cool find. I am more than a little jealous.



You're off to a good start. nice choice for a first build.