AR15.Com Archives
 Pictures of the "Spring on the bolt to stop the GOUGE"
oneshot_onekill  [Member]
6/22/2009 9:33:04 PM
OK... For those of you who were asking for them here are pictures of the BCG taken apart and the spring that you can get from Adams Arms to help decrease the "Gouge" in your upper. Don't know how well it works yet. I just put it on my Bolt and haven't tested it yet. Hope these help! The firing pin appears bent in the pictures... It's an optical illusion. The pin is straight.
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goteron  [Member]
6/22/2009 11:30:58 PM
I have a spring in my P308, I had fired about 200 rounds before I put it in, it seemed to stop the gouge so far, only fired another 200 through it after installation, so maybe to early to tell.
ORD  [Member]
6/23/2009 7:05:11 AM
Got a link, part #, or any other specific info on getting one? Just looked at Adams Arms site and they don't have anything under Parts & Accessories or Bolts & Bolt Carriers...
oneshot_onekill  [Member]
6/23/2009 7:19:17 AM
Originally Posted By ORD:
Got a link, part #, or any other specific info on getting one? Just looked at Adams Arms site and they don't have anything under Parts & Accessories or Bolts & Bolt Carriers...

I called them to order it. It was $5.50 plus some pretty hefty shipping... But worth it I think. I just told them it was the spring they add inside the bolt carrier behind the bolt.
ORD  [Member]
6/23/2009 7:31:00 AM
Thanks for your help...I'll give them a call.
Manny2_0  [Member]
7/1/2009 1:51:19 AM
Has anyone who installed this spring, have anything new to add as to how this is working out.....


Also does anyone know what's up with the newer cam pin from pof, is it for sale yet



Thanks
Wilson2008  [Member]
7/1/2009 8:20:20 AM
Before I installed the Adams spring it went bang every time I pulled the trigger. After installing the spring, it still goes bang every time. I haven't noticed any additional wear since installing it (several hundred rounds), but I am not the high volume shooter that we're all hoping to hear from...

- Wilson
Swat_dude  [Member]
7/1/2009 7:41:13 PM
up to 200 rounds in my P308 with the Adams spring installed. No malfunctions and no more wear in the gouge.
ftldrben  [Team Member]
7/6/2009 7:45:34 PM
Is Adams Arms in Clearwater FL???

ORD  [Member]
7/6/2009 8:23:30 PM
Originally Posted By ftldrben:
Is Adams Arms in Clearwater FL???



Actually, they are in Palm Harbor which is North of Clearwater. You can reach them at: 877-461-2572.
ftldrben  [Team Member]
7/8/2009 12:17:51 PM
Great...I have a restaurant near them...
ftldrben  [Team Member]
7/8/2009 3:46:11 PM
Adams Arms got right back to me via e-mail....

Great companies do extraordinary things...it looks like Adams Arms is going to be a great company.

Now, if POF could only get it.
parrisisland1978  [Member]
7/10/2009 2:46:02 PM
Originally Posted By ftldrben:
Adams Arms got right back to me via e-mail....

Great companies do extraordinary things...it looks like Adams Arms is going to be a great company.

Now, if POF could only get it.


I love my P-308. I do think though, that if Ruger comes out with a 308 piston like their new 5.56, POF will go belly up. And I would hate to see that.

46rossi  [Member]
7/10/2009 3:13:54 PM
i am hoping they flop they deserve what they get.
Swat_dude  [Member]
7/11/2009 3:28:47 AM
Originally Posted By 46rossi:
i am hoping they flop they deserve what they get.


Hate only affects the hater.

46rossi  [Member]
7/11/2009 12:10:55 PM
funny . nope pof just screwed to many of their dealers. i spent over 50 grand with them how about you. not hating at all they used to be great frank needs to step up and get chris back in line to many bs lies everytime you call.
tvfreakarms  [Member]
8/6/2009 2:56:28 PM
Hey one shot how is the spring working out for you so far? What was the cost? Can you send me a link so that I can get one. Thanks.


Originally Posted By oneshot_onekill:
OK... For those of you who were asking for them here are pictures of the BCG taken apart and the spring that you can get from Adams Arms to help decrease the "Gouge" in your upper. Don't know how well it works yet. I just put it on my Bolt and haven't tested it yet. http://i42.tinypic.com/hsmiq9.jpghttp://i40.tinypic.com/fuxcg7.jpg Hope these help! The firing pin appears bent in the pictures... It's an optical illusion. The pin is straight.


tvfreakarms  [Member]
8/6/2009 2:59:21 PM
I hope not, I just bought my upper

Originally Posted By 46rossi:
i am hoping they flop they deserve what they get.


tvfreakarms  [Member]
8/6/2009 3:01:27 PM
I'm curious, what if pof goes belly up? If we need a new barrel or something or extra parts what does that mean? SOL big time? That would suck. I guess what I'll need to do is buy extra spare parts and a barrel just in case they do go belly up.
Swat_dude  [Member]
8/14/2009 1:15:14 AM
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
I'm curious, what if pof goes belly up? If we need a new barrel or something or extra parts what does that mean? SOL big time? That would suck. I guess what I'll need to do is buy extra spare parts and a barrel just in case they do go belly up.


They are shipping over a thousand rifles a month now. It is not likely that a couple of people with bad experiences on this forum are going to bankrupt the company or even affect sales for the matter. It would be nice if we had that much clout on here but that is just not the case.
okent  [Member]
8/14/2009 5:18:08 PM
They aren't going out of business anytime soon.
I don't think you have anything to worry about regarding the parts situation, just order the spare parts kit and you are covered, everything else can be bought somewhere else if needed.

The barrels are Mike Rock so you can get those anytime, nothing magical about them as the barrel treatment can be done by an outside source.
Also the upper coating of NP3 can be done by outside sources too.
tvfreakarms  [Member]
8/16/2009 7:24:44 AM
Good to know.
I thought the barrels were from Rock Creek?

Originally Posted By okent:
They aren't going out of business anytime soon.
I don't think you have anything to worry about regarding the parts situation, just order the spare parts kit and you are covered, everything else can be bought somewhere else if needed.

The barrels are Mike Rock so you can get those anytime, nothing magical about them as the barrel treatment can be done by an outside source.
Also the upper coating of NP3 can be done by outside sources too.


ftldrben  [Team Member]
8/16/2009 2:01:25 PM
The AR market is so strong right now even POF couldn't screw it up.

That said, they make a great rifle...if it all fits and functions perfectly.

It is an alagory of life...It's easy to be great when things are going great...

Be great when things are going to shit...

Hear us POF?

Start being great ALL THE TIME!

Where are the 25 round mags? Where are the 308 piston replacement parts?

Just ANSWER and tell the truth...its better then no answer...
PPGMD  [Member]
8/16/2009 2:30:41 PM
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
Good to know.
I thought the barrels were from Rock Creek?


Mike Rock is one of the owners of Rock Creek. When people speak of Rock Creek they talk about Mike Rock because he does (at least in the past) all of the work on the precision barrels.
Swat_dude  [Member]
8/17/2009 6:00:37 PM
Originally Posted By PPGMD:
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
Good to know.
I thought the barrels were from Rock Creek?


Mike Rock is one of the owners of Rock Creek. When people speak of Rock Creek they talk about Mike Rock because he does (at least in the past) all of the work on the precision barrels.


I strongly suspect that the Rock Creek barrels are entirely responsible for the excellent accuracy the POF's deliver. Just about every other tactical bolt gun featured in my SWAT and GandWforLE Magazines use a Rock Creek Barrel.
ORD  [Member]
8/17/2009 7:54:45 PM
Originally Posted By Swat_dude:
I strongly suspect that the Rock Creek barrels are entirely responsible for the excellent accuracy the POF's deliver. Just about every other tactical bolt gun featured in my SWAT and GandWforLE Magazines use a Rock Creek Barrel.


I don't know that I would say the the Rock Creek 5R barrels in the POF's are "entirely" responsible for the excellent accuracy of their rifles, but it is sure as hell the single biggest influence on the accuracy. I have Mike's barrels in several of my current rifles (couple of bolt guns, my POF 308 20" and an AR-10) and they are extremely accurate rifles with a huge range of ammo and shooting conditions (at least when the nutt behind the butt does his part)!!!
Swat_dude  [Member]
8/17/2009 11:36:05 PM
Originally Posted By ORD:
Originally Posted By Swat_dude:
I strongly suspect that the Rock Creek barrels are entirely responsible for the excellent accuracy the POF's deliver. Just about every other tactical bolt gun featured in my SWAT and GandWforLE Magazines use a Rock Creek Barrel.


I don't know that I would say the the Rock Creek 5R barrels in the POF's are "entirely" responsible for the excellent accuracy of their rifles, but it is sure as hell the single biggest influence on the accuracy. I have Mike's barrels in several of my current rifles (couple of bolt guns, my POF 308 20" and an AR-10) and they are extremely accurate rifles with a huge range of ammo and shooting conditions (at least when the nutt behind the butt does his part)!!!


Okay, not entirely. But largely. There are some good design features that contribute including the heatsink barrel nut, free float handguard and gas system design.

tvfreakarms  [Member]
8/19/2009 4:43:16 PM
So, I just ordered 2 springs from adam arms just now. I was chatting it with one of the reps and he said that they should last for a while and work fine. He stated they shot several rounds and it's still holding up.
tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/11/2009 3:57:17 PM
I got my springs on put it on the bsg. I haven't fired it yet, but I wanted to know if anyone else has and how well its working?
Evollep3  [Member]
9/16/2009 7:59:16 PM
sorry for the stupid question but what "Gouge" are you guys talking about?
parrisisland1978  [Member]
9/16/2009 9:46:33 PM
Originally Posted By Evollep3:
sorry for the stupid question but what "Gouge" are you guys talking about?


The only stupid question is the one not asked. There are pictures of the gouge in another thread in this section. The gouge appears inside the upper receiver on the left side if you are looking from the rear of the rifle. Just behind the semi circular cut out. It is caused by the bolt carrier cam pin hitting as the bolt and carrier move rearward during the cycling process. This is caused by "carrier tilt" as explained in other posts better than I can. The spring shown in this thread stops the problem.

tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/17/2009 12:59:56 AM
So far the only problem i see using the spring is when you take your upper rec off of your lower rec it is a little pain in the butt because the spring keeps the bsg being flush with the upper rec. So you have to take off the upper rec from the front side and use something to push the bsg away from the buttstock in order to take off the upper rec.
ORD  [Member]
9/17/2009 6:05:28 PM
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
So far the only problem i see using the spring is when you take your upper rec off of your lower rec it is a little pain in the butt because the spring keeps the bsg being flush with the upper rec. So you have to take off the upper rec from the front side and use something to push the bsg away from the buttstock in order to take off the upper rec.


If you do the following, you can avoid going through all the trouble with removing the pivot pin and completely removing the upper from the lower:

1) pull out the take-down pin;
2) use your finger from one hand and push forward on the carrier while pulling up on the upper from the rear with your other hand;
3) presto...your upper receiver should pivot up as normal.

I had the same frustration with mine when I first installed the bolt spring in it. It is a minor thing that you'll get used to with minimal effort.

Good luck...
tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/20/2009 9:36:46 AM
I got use to it really quick. No problems at all. Have you shot your pof yet with the spring on the bolt? Do you notice any gouging?

Originally Posted By ORD:
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
So far the only problem i see using the spring is when you take your upper rec off of your lower rec it is a little pain in the butt because the spring keeps the bsg being flush with the upper rec. So you have to take off the upper rec from the front side and use something to push the bsg away from the buttstock in order to take off the upper rec.


If you do the following, you can avoid going through all the trouble with removing the pivot pin and completely removing the upper from the lower:

1) pull out the take-down pin;
2) use your finger from one hand and push forward on the carrier while pulling up on the upper from the rear with your other hand;
3) presto...your upper receiver should pivot up as normal.

I had the same frustration with mine when I first installed the bolt spring in it. It is a minor thing that you'll get used to with minimal effort.

Good luck...


SOC  [Team Member]
9/20/2009 10:31:41 AM
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
I got use to it really quick. No problems at all. Have you shot your pof yet with the spring on the bolt? Do you notice any gouging?

Originally Posted By ORD:
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
So far the only problem i see using the spring is when you take your upper rec off of your lower rec it is a little pain in the butt because the spring keeps the bsg being flush with the upper rec. So you have to take off the upper rec from the front side and use something to push the bsg away from the buttstock in order to take off the upper rec.


If you do the following, you can avoid going through all the trouble with removing the pivot pin and completely removing the upper from the lower:

1) pull out the take-down pin;
2) use your finger from one hand and push forward on the carrier while pulling up on the upper from the rear with your other hand;
3) presto...your upper receiver should pivot up as normal.

I had the same frustration with mine when I first installed the bolt spring in it. It is a minor thing that you'll get used to with minimal effort.

Good luck...




You can also press and hold the forward assist before "shotgunning" the AR to get around this issue.
ORD  [Member]
9/20/2009 1:47:13 PM
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
I got use to it really quick. No problems at all. Have you shot your pof yet with the spring on the bolt? Do you notice any gouging?


I have put 240 rounds through mine since installing the spring and I haven't noticed any signs/symptoms of wear/gouging at all. It appears that the Adams Arms spring does the trick. Also, I know that some people were concerned about reliability issues with the spring setup...mine has been 100%.
tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/20/2009 3:19:55 PM
Keep us updated. I will do the same.
[/quote]

I have put 240 rounds through mine since installing the spring and I haven't noticed any signs/symptoms of wear/gouging at all. It appears that the Adams Arms spring does the trick. Also, I know that some people were concerned about reliability issues with the spring setup...mine has been 100%.[/quote]

Wilson2008  [Member]
9/20/2009 6:26:07 PM
I've put 500 rounds through my 415 since installing the bolt spring. The rifle is functioning 100% (as it has for all 1200 rounds since new) and the groove is the same size as it was when I first noticed it after reading this forum.

I think the groove might not have grown anymore whether I use the Adams spring or not. Mine is not a self destructive gouge, just a 1/2 inch ramp for the cam pin to ride up on it's way back. I'm going to continue using the Adams spring. It's working well and I see no reason not to.

1200 rounds isn't a high round count, but It is enough to make a couple observations:

1. Zero failures of any kind in 1200 rounds. Mostly shooting Federal XM193.
2. The groove is small and has not grown since I discovered it 600+ rounds ago.
3. Carrier tilt may be a real problem, but not in my POF. My buffer tube looks new. I kid you not.
4. The piston op rod mushroomed a little during break in. It has not changed since then. All other moving parts look new.

As always, I am a sample size of one. I would love to hear from people with 10,000 rounds through their POF, since mine is just broken in by many people's standards.

Maybe I got the only ringer POF has ever sold, but their design has proven solid to me. I hope those of you having trouble with your rifles get satisfaction from the factory. For those of you considering a POF, I love mine, but remember what you paid for my advice!

- Wilson

tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/20/2009 10:33:36 PM
That's good to know. Since i have not shot my pof yet i hope i don't get the gauge. As for the carrier tilt will the spring help from having any carrier tilt issue?
I wish that pof hurry up and start selling there new roller cam pin.

By the way what type of MOA are you getting on your pof? Any sub moa?

Originally Posted By Wilson2008:
I've put 500 rounds through my 415 since installing the bolt spring. The rifle is functioning 100% (as it has for all 1200 rounds since new) and the groove is the same size as it was when I first noticed it after reading this forum.

I think the groove might not have grown anymore whether I use the Adams spring or not. Mine is not a self destructive gouge, just a 1/2 inch ramp for the cam pin to ride up on it's way back. I'm going to continue using the Adams spring. It's working well and I see no reason not to.

1200 rounds isn't a high round count, but It is enough to make a couple observations:

1. Zero failures of any kind in 1200 rounds. Mostly shooting Federal XM193.
2. The groove is small and has not grown since I discovered it 600+ rounds ago.
3. Carrier tilt may be a real problem, but not in my POF. My buffer tube looks new. I kid you not.
4. The piston op rod mushroomed a little during break in. It has not changed since then. All other moving parts look new.

As always, I am a sample size of one. I would love to hear from people with 10,000 rounds through their POF, since mine is just broken in by many people's standards.

Maybe I got the only ringer POF has ever sold, but their design has proven solid to me. I hope those of you having trouble with your rifles get satisfaction from the factory. For those of you considering a POF, I love mine, but remember what you paid for my advice!

- Wilson



Wilson2008  [Member]
9/21/2009 10:53:52 AM
I don't see how the spring or roller cam would prevent carrier tilt. I think these are two completely different issues.

The worst picture I saw of carrier tilt was in a thread about the new Ruger piston gun (Link Here). Guy had really bad wear in the buffer tube (bottom and sides were wearing away) and when he contacted Ruger they replaced it and told him that some upper to lower tolerance was out of spec on it. The poster (Melvin_Johnson) did a good job documenting his problem and Ruger's response. The Ruger seems to be going through the same issues we discuss here, so it's worth following threads about them. If you have excessive wear due to carrier tilt I would have the factory check out the tolerances. The tilt does happen, but it doesn't cause huge wear in all rifles.

I can't comment on accuracy. OK, I could tell you it's the most accurate rifle I've ever shot, but I couldn't back it up in a way that would help. I've got a Eotech 512 on mine and only shot it off the bench enough to get it sighted in. Mostly I've been shooting standing and kneeling fast pairs and such. When I do slow down and shoot prone the rifle does it's part if I do mine.

The biggest thing I'd say is don't get too worried about all the internet talk. Go out and enjoy shooting your gun!

- Wilson
tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/21/2009 2:55:19 PM


Yea that looks pretty bad. I guess there is no way of getting around it. Hopefully with my pof upper and my spikes lower is a good combo.

Does anyone else have the same combo as mine?

Thanks for the link wilson2008
ReconHM  [Member]
9/21/2009 7:17:13 PM
TV shoot that thing already. You have the spring, you don't need the cam.
Give us an update when you do.
tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/21/2009 8:41:07 PM
LOL reconhm. I promise I will give you an update. Hell i will personally pm you. I dont know how much of an update I will be able to give since this is the first time shooting an AR. Well I shot one about 10yrs ago but that was only couple of shots. I'm hoping to go this weekend.

Originally Posted By ReconHM:
TV shoot that thing already. You have the spring, you don't need the cam.
Give us an update when you do.


tvfreakarms  [Member]
9/29/2009 10:19:05 PM
I finally shot my pof and the adams arms spring did not help stopping the gouge. The cam pin was still hitting the upper rec. Also I notice some slight carrier tilt. Hopefully it won't get any worse. I shot 136rds. I have a spikes lower.
46rossi  [Member]
10/3/2009 10:25:12 PM
you can eliminate all gouging of the upper reciever by rounding the edges of your cam pin . when done on a new gun before shooting you wont ever see a groove.
tvfreakarms  [Member]
10/5/2009 4:30:44 AM
Damn if I would of know this before I went shoting LOL. What is the best way to shave off some of the corner of the cam pin?

Originally Posted By 46rossi:
you can eliminate all gouging of the upper reciever by rounding the edges of your cam pin . when done on a new gun before shooting you wont ever see a groove.


46rossi  [Member]
10/5/2009 4:07:24 PM
i used a mill at the shop but have seen it done with a dremel. i can email you a pic cant seem to post one from my iphone.
Swat_dude  [Member]
10/5/2009 6:06:14 PM
Originally Posted By tvfreakarms:
Damn if I would of know this before I went shoting LOL. What is the best way to shave off some of the corner of the cam pin?

Originally Posted By 46rossi:
you can eliminate all gouging of the upper reciever by rounding the edges of your cam pin . when done on a new gun before shooting you wont ever see a groove.




You can buy a .556 cam pin already shaved on LWRC's website. Go to the store and then click on upper receiver parts/bolt carrier group/ page 2.

46rossi  [Member]
10/5/2009 9:38:21 PM
[
[/quote]

You can buy a .556 cam pin already shaved on LWRC's website. Go to the store and then click on upper receiver parts/bolt carrier group/ page 2.

[/quote]

that one works but will leave a slight mark still . those need about .007 of an inch removed to leave no mark . we also machine down the front side. tv i will send you a pic but it will be from an i phone not sure of quality my computer and camera were lost by the airline last week . tv feel free to post the pic kind of crappy but you get the point.
46rossi  [Member]
10/5/2009 10:31:14 PM
i almost forgot DO AT YOUR OWN RISK.
tvfreakarms  [Member]
10/6/2009 10:16:35 PM
How much do i need to shave off? I won't do much. My buddy has a dremel. What are the risks?

Originally Posted By 46rossi:
i almost forgot DO AT YOUR OWN RISK.


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